God IS awesome! Third, experiences dont trump the Bible. Stop sieving the Bible through your worldview and presuppositions. So, he looks at the Bible through the lens of his own ideas and uses Scripture out of its proper context and meaning to support those ideas. My job as the pastor of discipleship was to lead the campaign for Saddleback. I find it incredibly sad when Christians seek to tear each other down. My issue with Saddleback Church has nothing to do with nonessential issues. Looking at your list, though, Id say most of what you listed is unbiblical. You will also see the four steps a new believer should take. This, obviously, makes it secular for all intents and purposes. I left the website knowing that I have a place to have purpose, and Rick Warren is peachy keen. Youre a rare gem in that way. Your opinion couldve prevented someone from finding God. If youre curious about who I am, you should read my testimony. We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. Rick Warren and his wife started Saddleback with a vision to plant a church for people who didnt like church. I could tell you oodles about the church history because Saddleback loves itself some Saddleback. If you read some of my other posts you would know that I have a mom who died as a result of her alcoholism. Lets pretend you read this watered down gospel, and you want to be saved. His teachings and poor handling of Scripture are corrupting the gospel, assuring some people of a salvation they cannot have yet because they have not recognized their wickedness and need for salvation, and/or made believers who follow him unequipped to handle the Word because he doesnt consistently use it correctly. Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. I dont know if someone designed the Rick Warren pastor page to be this cringeworthy on purpose or if it was a terrible accident. Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. Because after the Orange County megachurch ordained three women as associate pastors, it named Stacie Wood, wife of the churchs senior pastor, Andy Wood, a teaching pastor. 15 reviews of Saddleback Church "Such a great campus and wonderful community to build relationships with one another. Its an addictions ministry Julie, do you want people to overcome addiction or not? The Methodists probably will split, and each new denomination probably will fire shots across the other's bow during the 2020s. The selection of Andy Wood and his wife, Stacie, to succeed Rick and Kay Warren as leaders of the California-based Saddleback Church has triggered "shock" and "fear" in some who have worked with Wood over concerns over what they characterize as leadership abuse. Throughout the Bible, women have played a key role in fulfilling Gods plan. There are endless arguments against this teaching, but they are all just grasping at straws to fight against a plain biblical teaching that does not suit modern-day sensibilities. 2. And Im glad to see that you understand the importance of salvation. Its not about salvation or the gospel or Jesus, its about admitting they are powerless, and asking God to help. Yikes! 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Im supposed to be the one who doesnt have any needs myself. I dont think weve done a great job of understanding our own needs, our own humanity, so weve often tried to live beyond our limits. Men and women, according to Scripture, are equal in the sight of the Lord. Would you know how to minister to them? (Though, I admit to using sarcasm. 3. Rick Warren's Saddleback successor triggers 'shock' and 'fear' | Church You should be baptized, but maybe you should learn how to discern a healthy Christian church from the, ahem, not so good ones You dont want to get baptized somewhere youll later regret. The work in the nursery, on the missions committee, etc., is just as important as a pastors calling. Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren searching for his successor | Church Pastor Andy Wood and his wife, Stacie, outside Saddleback Church in Lake Forest. Women can use avenues such as serving in church and political appointments to accomplish this charge. I find myself regularly reminding pastors that before God made them pastors, He made them people. Then why does Warren tell his readers to accept Jesus? Your argument that you got something from what he has written is not a valid one when the discussion is whether or not his teachings are rooted in Scripture. The page is reminiscent of a fan page on a boy band website. These Christians who are criticizing you simply dont want to read their Bibles and understand that Paul called out all kinds of heretics. Interview With Pastor Cynthia Petty - Live Good - Organic, Sustainable 2.) A woman wrestling with depression. Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. CR also encourages participants to improve their self-esteem and self-image. That person will be a sober recipient of Hell. Saddleback Church, Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life, and Celebrate Recovery have always been on my something-aint-right-here list. The Bible encourages all Christians both male and female to follow the commands of God in telling others about Him. While Saddleback does not use the word "Baptist" in its name, the church is affiliated with the 13.7 million-member SBC. Jesus is their life. Saddleback Church, one of the largest churches in the Southern Baptist Convention and home to influential pastor Rick Warren, ordained three women as staff pastors this past weekend, a move. Get a Bible There it is! Of course, the problem with a man-centered church like Saddleback is that the church is bound together by a celebrity pastor rather than by the blood of Christ. Second, you also implied that I am tearing down other Christians. Churches like Saddleback assure people of their salvation when theyve never heard the whole gospel. It is the pastors job to equip. Im actually a little excited about Saddleback ordaining women because this gives the SBC no choice but to address female preaching. Yes, I agree with you. CR was not created by Warren. Pastor Rick Warren speaks during an outdoor Easter service at Saddleback Church, which just returned to in-person worship, on Thursday evening, April 1, 2021. The reason? He is telling them it is the cleanliness of the inner man that matters. Why is Frank McCourt really pushing it? Make it simple for them. But lets quickly look at the most commonly used scripture to explain this position. However, in its proper context we discover this is bad advice given by one of Jobs friends. Go back to your white washed sepulcher where you and your associates are most comfortable. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. expressed some concerns, but most recognizable names were positive. In that case, a little help in this area would be needed and responsible of him and his ministry. Very insightful thank you for your faithful service. Former Saddleback Pastor Leaves New Church Over Gay Marriage Stance The confessional statement [the Baptist Faith and Message] says the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture. She was recently named a teaching pastor and three other women were ordained as associate pastors. Also, my post is not snide or prideful. PS.. Its amazing how that inability to only think of ourselves can be changed with the power of salvation. You dont agree and you think Im a terrible person, but that doesnt refute my points. When theres incongruence, its best to side with God. I suggest you take a deep breath and think twice before name-calling and speaking so angrily at someone, even if it is over the internet. You dont have to agree, but Google it and youll find plenty of Bible scholars who would agree with me. Well, CR is the icing on the cake of this hot mess we call Rick Warren ministry. Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. None of your other fellow Christians are nails. You strain at gnats abs swallow camels. Women, however, cannot teach men in a role of authority in the church as seen on 1 Timothy 2:11-12. The Southern Baptist Convention decided Tuesday to oust Saddleback Church, the second-largest congregation of the convention, because it has a female pastor. Pastors come up with excuses for people, like, Oh well, Im sure theyre busy. That may be true, but they can still challenge busy people by saying, You need to be doing something for the kingdom. Even when I was there, I wasnt really there. Kudos to you! Everything you wrote is factual, it is an assessment based on Gods Word, not the relativistic moods of society. Im saying women cant be pastors/elders. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. Faithful, Obedient, and Counter-Cultural Christian Living. God bless you. People only have so much time, and if they say yes to your churchs volunteer opportunity, theyre saying no to something else. Discover how CareLeader.org can help you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care for struggling and hurting people in your church. I wonder how many poor souls were freed from addiction by their ministry? Apparently, Warren plucked it out of Job without thought of the true meaning of the text. Instead, I suggest that you find blogs to read that speak to you and your needs. There is nothing I have said that has been against the Lord. Rapid-fire unrelated questions dont typically lead to a fruitful conversation. The way he delivers his lukewarm message doesnt resonate with you and thats fine, you have every right to go to a different church. Also, make the training simple and easy. We should not be tossed to and fro by any old doctrine (Ephesians 4:14). Some fringe weirdos (like me?) Just because you like something doesnt make it good, accurate, or biblical. Give people a simple, easy, low-cost opportunity to get involved. Influential Pastor Rick Warren has announced that after more than 40 years as the lead pastor of Saddleback Church in California, he will be soon stepping back from his current role with the church and has begun the process of searching for his successor. Nobody else was responsible. Another missing gospel, a focus on something other than Jesus, and mishandling Scripture make for another gospel failing. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. But by the end of the 2030s, the controversy will melt into consensus. If there are 47,000 Southern Baptist churches and 20 years from now you only have 20,0000 men who want to be pastors, there are going to be some tough decisions to be made. Saddleback also was the birthplace of Celebrate Recovery, a Christian 12-step inspired program to help people deal with their "hurts, hang-ups and habits." The program has been adopted by tens of. For starters, in a previous post I wrote called Your Church Just Might Be A Social Club, I discussed the results of someone listening to 18 hours of sermons at several of the biggest churches in the U.S., Saddleback being one of them. There is a difference between appropriate healthy sacrifice and an unhealthy approach to ministry that is often driven out of people pleasing or need for approval. (https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/) If you dont want to read my take on it because Im obviously not your cup of tea, then Google it. Of course your theology probably believes that battle is futile because your sovereign uncaring god had already condemned all but those who believe as you to hell anyway. Hi, Elizabeth. ), but its presented in a safe, child-like way. We might agree on more than you think. I have read all of his devotionals (365 of them as I translated them into another language) and they were sincere and enriching for me personally. It was a very typical Monday morning on November 2, 2020. My wife and kids felt the impact of my out-of-control pace. Rick Warren and the church has changed many lives, including mine. Do you have faith? Im going to share some of his points here. But we seem to only be interested in that its men. You sound more like a Rick Warren super fan than a Christian concerned about sound biblical teaching. Catholics believe in Transubstantiation, Do You have Communion? If youre recruiting them to be a small-group leader, whats the job of a small-group leader? This is why your churches are dying a slow death and churches like Saddleback are thriving. He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. What version of the Bible is the most original? Ultimately, thats what we need to doview teachings through the sieve of Gods Word. I really do appreciate hearing from people. Rick Warren Reveals Successor, Retirement Date as Saddleback Church Pastor June 28, 2021 3 AM PT Rick Warren's announcement on June 6 that he plans to step away from his role as lead pastor at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest raises the issue of succession in. I am passionate about encouraging Christian women to grow in their faith, live godly lives, and discern truth from all the lies and noise of the world. Go to saddleback.com and click on the "Sign In/Sign Up" tab in the upper right corner of the home page. Sabbath to me is different than a day off. Before this ordaining women fiasco, though, I already had reservations about Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. The webpage has resources for discipleship and ways to plug into a Saddleback church. Southern Baptists have always been more concerned about distributing life jackets to people who are drowning than straitjackets, he said. Progressive Christianity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/ Easy to judge mistakes of others. I worked closely with Rick on developing the curriculum and deciding how we would structure it with small groups. He had a created order for men and women from the beginning. Simply put, Im a Bible-believing Christian woman. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. That is sin. Baptism This is a good thing. 1. Saddleback Church Clears Rick Warren's Successor of Allegations of You made a good point. 3 Reasons Saddleback Church Fails The Gospel And You How long have you been saved? The Bible portrays a special position for females in the church and society. They have also held positions of leadership and responsibilities in spreading the Gospel. Theres no greater good than salvation through Jesus Christ, but his focus is deeds not creeds. (https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html) So, I dont care how many times he gives an enjoyable sermon if he continues to deprioritize the gospel. The whole world talks this way to each other & about each other. But overall Saddleback has made an enormous impact of bringing many people to Christ. I think youve got to start with biblical teaching. CareLeader.org helps you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care. Thanks for the comment, but Im not sure what your Bible reference has to do with my post. 1 John 4:1 teaches that we are to be diligent in determining if the teaching is from God or not. So what about Methodist Church, Gay woman Pastors? I think asking the why question puts pastors on a path to be more emotionally healthy. Essentially, the gospel isnt present. Witnesses offer conflicting accounts, Mars Voltas lead singer broke with Scientology and reunited with the band. I am happy to hear you believe your life has been positively changed through Warrens ministry, and I wish you all the best in the future. I certainly hope that you take your own advice, as well. God bless! Pastors need to protect their own personal walk with God. Rick changed the culture of the community where he lives, and theres nothing that makes a backward Baptist angrier than the church growth success of someone like Rick Warren. It would prove them right that God doesnt bless that sort of ministry model. Absolutely not! Largest church in SBC ordains three women as pastors At the time, we had five or six hundred small groups. 2. Before launching Replenish, Lance served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church. Rather than Jesus lessons about the kingdom during the Sermon on the Mount, CR is offering Your Best Life Now kinda stuff. John 4, Romans 16 and the Great Commission as validation for women to evangelize and spread the Gospel. How does a person get saved? Those verses are instructions for when a brother or sister in Christ has sinned against us personally. Calling out false teachers: https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/ I really didnt handle it well, and its part of that journey that resulted ultimately in me doing Replenish. God bless! Pastor Rick Warren delivers last Saddleback Church sermon Sunday - Los I think you should know the Bible more than just basing it in one scripture. As a recovered alcoholic (decades ago) I can assure you that the addict HAS to put there recovery as the sole purpose of the program. 1.) Here we are again. A true Church of the living God with Christ as the head will thrive in any situation. I will be praying for you. That pastors books can be bestsellers. I always thought burnout was about all the externals around you. As part of its release, we decided to turn it into a campaign in our church and around the country. Then give them the resources and support they need. So, how has the church emphasis failed the gospel? Paul wanted to stick to the Faith when others beliefs crept in. Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. We are all different and take many approaches on teaching Gods word; thats whats most important. You prop up a gospel that nobody can live up to so you feel superior. The pastor of Southwest Church resigned over his stance on gay marriage. I write because I have seen and heard so much false teaching that women take in like candy over the years. If we understand what Jesus did for us and why, then, in order to be saved, we need to repent of our sins and believe Jesus is who He says He is. Destructive hard does lead to burnout. 1.) This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. It also features the stories of over 75 everyday people whove applied biblical principles to heal from grief. Im not. Today, the Southern Baptist Convention is increasingly homogeneous. This article demonizes Rick in a sarcastic and disturbing manner, I mean using words such as bad, bad hermeneutics. We really need to be careful in this area. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. I might be the only one with this impression, but this page mixed with the embarrassing overuse of the word purpose all over the website is a little much for me. Can you articulate that? I wouldnt expect everyone to like it, of course, but why should I accommodate my writing for your sensibilities? He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. However, I will say that my husband is the pastor of a small, rural Baptist church in Wisconsin. I assume you see me, and others like me, as judgmental and mean. What does history teach us about Saddleback Church and the SBC? I am in complete agreement with you on all fronts. Give people a simple step. (RNS) Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren on Sunday (June 6) announced the church will begin the official search for his successor, signaling he will retire after 40 years in his pulpit.. If you, however, find theres a lack of content you want to read, then I suggest you start a blog and share what you want to see on the internet. Pissing on everybody else doesnt make your walk look any better, love. 3 Ways to Maintain Sanity in Ministry by Dr. Jeff Forrey. You can find detailed answers to those questions on the My Testimony and What Is The Set-Apart Walk pages. He is a public figure who many people look to for spiritual guidance. But now a pastors people listen online to the best communicators anywhere in the country, so theres pressure for a pastor to deliver. If you want to teach what you believe is right, do that. I think its part of acknowledging our limits; God gives us permission to stop, even though theres still more that could be done. Thank you so much Julie for your piece on Rick Warren. Many blessings. I pray for him, and others in a similarly unique position of influence regularly, but I believe it is cowardly and unloving to not warn others of bad Bible teaching. Yet, his frequent use of proof-texting and his ordination of women proves He plays a bit too fast and loose with his Bible interpretations. At Saddleback, we did Just In Time training, giving people just enough to get started. There is no such thing as a coincidence in Southern Baptist confession of faith. As seen in The Purpose Driven Life, CR uses eisegesis to unite these eight principles with Scripture. Lance Witt, who served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church, shares insights on how pastors can prevent burnout and not make some of the same mistakes he feels he made. Follow any of the links below to read biblical responses to you queries. Ministry, no matter what size the church, is a team sport. For Rick to do what he did in Southern California required some different strategies and different ways of communicating, and that was unsettling to traditional hard-line Southern Baptists. Julie I have read your post and am in 100 percent agreement with your assessment. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. This demonstrates a complete ignorance of who God is. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. I can assure you that I spent time prayerfully considering the points you made in your comment. We have to make sure we stay connected to the gift and not make it all about the box. All of those things together are a recipe for burnout for a lot of leaders and pastors. Thats my experience, at least. Instead of focusing on a church and its leader and criticizing why you think it is bad bible teaching, why not change the focus and write a post about the church you attend to attract people? Im rooting for him. I feel bad for you that you judge that way. A few years ago it was Calvinism. They dont need to know about hell; they live there and in addiction they are prevented from thinking of anything but them selves that is what addiction is. CRs foundational principles are based on the a sermon on the Mount. Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. Although we do not see eye to eye on this topic, I do pray you have many blessings in the years to come. Im not. In Matthew 22:39 Jesus tells those listening to love their neighbors as they love themselves. Fourth, you seem to think you know about my church and my beliefs. You dont have to feel bad for me, though. Have you spoken to the SBC or Pastor Rick about your concerns? Ministry is the box, the delivery system, but Jesus is the gift. https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/. Instead you should feel bad for Warren. Third, youve accused me of being prideful, self-righteous, and claim I think I am the only one who knows the Truth. Every time I receive a comment on this post, I close my eyes and click on it with hesitancy. For political, financial, and public relations reasons, it is neither feasible nor advisable for SBC leaders to take action. The comments just prove the Church is apostate. Last week the Southern Baptist Convention ousted Saddleback Church, one of its largest and highest-profile member churches, from its ranks. At the same time, the Bible isnt really open to multiple interpretations in most places. This is not the first time Kay Warren has taken the pulpit, however. How can you get involved? Just pray for all the liberals daking a belief in the Bible n Jesus Christ. Im a homemaker, mother of five, and pastors wife. Maybe it is an exception to the rule ! Although a valid right of yours to disagree with me, it doesnt mean Im not allowed to speak. Second, you think Im jealous of Rick Warren. Holy Communion!!!! Its about a slower time of worship and being with God. The website provides the Cliffs Notes version of the gospel. I have great news for you! Its not becoming of a lady who is set apart. Saddleback Church ousted from Southern Baptist Convention over female Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings (You werent just meant to believe; You were made to belong.), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. A man battling chronic anger. The pastor doesnt have all the gifts. Whats a good first step for you to take?. Second, you did not address any of my criticisms with counterarguments. Saddleback Church, founded by Pastor Rick Warren and his wife, Kay, in 1980, announced on Facebook that on May 6 it had ordained three women as ministers in a "historic night." On Mother's Day, which fell three days after Saddleback's ordination, the Sunday morning online message was given by Kay Warren. - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/, 4 LifeWay Red Flags That Should Send You Running - The Set-Apart Walk, Why I Wont Apologize For Calling Out False Teachers - The Set-Apart Walk, https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html, Why Churches Are Becoming LGBTQ+ Allies - The Set-Apart Walk, Rick Warren And The Problem With Celebrity Pastors - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/christian-unity-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-churches-are-becoming-lgbtq-allies/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/how-to-identify-a-bad-ladies-bible-teacher/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/rick-warren-and-the-problem-with-celebrity-pastors/, Christian Unity Is Not What You Think It Is - The Set-Apart Walk, Responding To Your Feedback: Part 1 - The Set-Apart Walk. |, Christian Budgeting: There Really Is A Biblical Way, How To Sabotage Your Marriage: Unrealistic Expectations, News And The Willful Ignorance Of Christians - The Set-Apart Walk, Your Church Might Just Be A Social Club - The Set-Apart Walk, Lutheranism Is Biblical, Right? Of course, this purity of heart is only possible through repentance and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. However, they had a much easier time than previously in dealing with their addiction. If youre not convinced of the importance of marking and avoiding false teachers, then I suggest you read my post on why we should call them out. The Bible explicitly tells women what to teach in Titus 2:3-5. But Sabbath is about stopping, and resting, and delighting, and putting things in your life that fill you up. I have spent some time looking up CR, meditation, and even that quote specifically since I read your question.
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