Whereas for people who fall into that gender binary neatly, they dont have to. One is unintentional. We were like, we just want it to be sexy. And so its really interesting to see some cool stuff thats happening in animation, very specifically in childrens animation, thats breaking that down and arguably at the forefront of our conversations about non-binary identity and gender non-conforming identities. Dillon: I encounter this and it doesnt matter what room I was in specifically but where were going around and saying our names, and I am the only person that will offer my pronouns. And I would argue that live-action non-binary and trans characters have also done this. Sun: Pat even got their own movie, didnt they? Like, what if I had to be in a place where my gender didnt align with something that somebody could immediately clock? The roles that are offered to them are gendered, are specifically gendered as male or female, man or woman. Lets show some skin. And I think just knowing that, understanding that, allows a possible road towards a way in which to approach conversation with a person who is coming from a totally different perspective, but who is holding it in the same place within themselves that you hold your beliefs. ", "I'm not [transitioning] to be interesting. Dillon: Yes, I would say when I was first cast as Taylor and I was talking to Brian and David about the character, they told me that Taylor was going to be a major player in the show, that Taylor was going to play a really important role. But I also think for people like me, Pat was a door to asking ourselves who we are and really starting to get comfortable even if no one else around us was get comfortable personally with not being in that binary, maybe not being the gender that somebody said we were, and maybe not even being the other gender option that somebody said we could be. The things that I've had to do medically to my body don't define me. So I dont have the honest answers. Sun: Yeah, it does. And they are a musician; many of the most famous non-binary celebrities coincidentally happen to be more musicians rather than actors, like Sam Smith, and I think Janelle Mone has identified as non-binary or gender nonconforming. Dillon: Thank you so much, Rebecca. It is aligned with masculinity. Search instead in Creative? With John Wick 3, you were able to get the director, Chad Stahelski, to agree to make your character, The Adjudicator, canonically non-binary. If you see a non-binary character where the representation is just about their identity and/or they die in some horrific manner and/or they only have one episode, that is evidence to me that there was no non-binary person involved in that project except the actor who was cast. Dillon: So you actually just gave an example of a thing that came to my mind that I want to say. White: Thats the weight of the first, right? Thank you for doing all the research you did before coming into this. Specifically as it pertains to gender identity. I am a transgender female. Like donuts and candy. If there had been someone like Taylor on TV when I was young, it wouldve meant a great deal, Dillon says. And thats what the term non-binary is about: Its more like a sphere that you can walk into, and it exists fluidly. I think about the concept of angels and demons. And so I think one of the incredible complexities that the show holds about this character of Bobby Axelrod is that, as you said, hes all the things. Lets distinguish todays conversation: Were going to be speaking of the identities that fall under the non-binary identity, but its different from transgender. White: Okay. And then we take that with us as we get older. But now I'm here, and I'm transgender. We are bodies, minds, consciousness; its all much more nuanced and complex and beautiful than we have been taught. I mean, publicly step into that identity, knowing that my body is just my body, and it doesnt signify anything other than its my body. And I think those two were really, really interesting looks. Asia Kate Dillon wandered into a coffee shop near Brooklyn's Prospect Park looking like a fallen angel taking a personal day: Black shirt, black jeans, black sneakers, black liner circling. As a subscriber, you have 10 gift articles to give each month. Thats awesome. And its been awesome to see that so far, peripherally, they are integral characters to the storyline, the story isnt about their gender identity necessarily. Thats awesome. I think about the concept of the bearded lady, which has been around forever. Dillon, who uses the singular pronoun "they" for identification, spoke . So have you felt excluded, then, by the womens movement, and specifically the Womens March? Then it also said, "Some people may refer to this as gender fluid or genderqueer.". Whats wrong with him?!. Theres still not enough, so lets keep going. You know what I mean? And I think you can kind of sniff that out. The surgery didn't solve all of my issues, but it did offer a sense of peace and comfort that wasn't otherwise there. In person, Dillon also exhibits an extraordinary amount of empathy: In conversation they (more on that pronoun in a bit) graciously express empathy for Donald and Melania Trump, and they show it whenas we grab a quick lunch for this interviewthey are approached by a rather bold young gentleman (who could have walked straight off the Billions set) for an all-too-presumptuously familiar chat. Asia Kate Dillon is an American actress, producer, and director known for portraying various important roles in popular TV shows likeTaylor Mason in Billions andBrandy Epps inOrange Is the New Black. And I think Pat is really, really interesting, particularly for me, because when Pat was popular, I was young. Thats a tricky thing. "I think it's important to be able to be like, 'Yes, your shoulders are broad, yes your hands are big and your voice is deep and you're really tall and people notice you, and that makes you noticeably trans, but that doesn't make you any less beautiful. Your characters get to do different things and they get to be different people, and thats because theyre not conforming to that binary. Maybe the food is trying to keep within the vibe of the world. It said, female, gender nonbinary. Sun: Thats so moving to me to hear, that is extraordinary. But these two characters are just adorable aliens. And thank you so much for having me, Rebecca. We need to see roles written for them that are Emmy-, Tony- and Oscar-worthy. I think its really easy to get distracted by whatever the current skirmish is when whatever the current skirmish is is always a distraction from whats at the base level. But one of the reasons the show is resonating with people right now is because the show examines why we find the characteristics of charm, and flawed people, appealing. Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. I think one of the greatest gifts of trans and non-binary representation on TV less so on film, unfortunately is that by featuring people who do not exist inside the binary, it opens the door for cisgender people to break down their own toxic gender stereotypes and reimagine characters and people and what a man and a woman would look and act like and what kinds of roles they can get. There was no pathway; it was more or less trying to figure it out. Does that make sense? Elliot Page, Laverne Cox, Josie Totah and more actors and influencers share important reflections and lessons from their experiences as transgender people. Im very curious to see what, for example, Joey Solloway, who I think is probably the most prominent non-binary creator in Hollywood they made Transparent and were a very respected indie film director prior what they will do now that they have come out specifically as non-binary and how to advocate for more voices in that space. Apply Bed Bath and Beyond Coupon and save 25% Off your entire purchase, Target Circle: up to 50% Off with Target promo code, Shop the new Polo Ralph Lauren x ASOS Exclusive Collection from $99, Michael Kors Promo Code: sign up for KORSVIP + Get 10% Off on first order, 2023 Cond Nast. The creators, David and Bryan, both have children of various ages, and their kids would come home and be talking to them and say like, Yeah my friend is coming over, theyll be here at 6:00. And Brian or David would say Wait, how many people are coming? Or, They? It began as an organic conversation about their kids worlds and their kids friends, so when they were developing a character that was younger, who was an intern, it just sort of made sense to them to have that character be in this world. What does it mean for you to fall in love with someone, and they fall in love with you, under the assumption that you are one thing and youre actually the other? These are things that are normally given to girls when we do superhero or fight fantasy stories. And I really think it is only a matter of time and truly not that long until the Tonys, the Emmys and the Oscars follow suit. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. Cardigan by Maison Kitsun / Shirt and pants by Agns B / Beanie by American Apparel. Id like to talk about SNLs Pat. Its learned. Sun: It is also great to see that spoiler alert when Taylor briefly breaks away and sets up their own rival firm for a while, basically Axe and Wags spent an entire season plotting how to take you down, but at no point did they entertain weaponizing gender identity against you or anything like that. And if every character I played from now until I die onscreen or on the stage was non-binary, that would be awesome. I've been endlessly inspired by so many in the trans community. And so you see a character like Bugs Bunny who dresses in drag. With her . Its also been really incredible to see trans and non-binary people, particularly people of color, Black and indigenous people, having control of their own stories and being the ones who are writing them, directing them, producing them. The last big concept I wanted to talk about was this difference between characters and actors. Its really nice to talk to you. But I also think that sci-fi and fantasy are about places of imagination and exploration, and in the same way that animation is this place where we do not have to exist within the limits of humanness, its an incredible place to explore lots of things, things that we want to see, things that we want to be. Thank you again. Obviously sci-fi is the place where you can explore, but when its the only place that you explore gender outside of cisgender identity, you literally dehumanize it.. Below, some highlights from our quick but deep conversation. Fast & Furious: Crossroads: Gameplay Trailer. But what the 33-year-old gets asked about perhaps most frequently is gender identity: Dillons is nonbinary, with the preferred pronoun of they.. (Laughs.) And if so, how should they do it over? Theres a sweet, beautiful song. You dont have to ascribe to this or that. Pink is his associated color, and his weapons and powers are defensive things. The thing that I really love about these representations is that they come at the non-binary identity from two different angles. Whatever hope Taylor gave to other people once Taylor appeared onscreen, Taylor gave me that hope and sense of self first., Dillon also discusses with host Rebecca Sun (THR senior editor of diversity and inclusion) their campaign to remove gendered acting categories from awards shows, a move that the Grammys, Gotham Awards, MTV Movie and TV Awards and Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have already done. Taylor has moved around a lot across the seasons, but for the purposes of this general podcast I will have to restrain myself. And so I had literally no example of a person who didnt identify as a man or a woman but hadnt changed their body. It's something everyone wants, to feel understood. Im not surprised that this conversation about conversion therapy is being spoken through a gender lens. All of it to me is a great example of how it could go. It depends. They can be in literally anything. Keanu Reeves had the idea for a character who wasnt going to take up physical arms in this movie, who had a different kind of power, a quiet power. So I dont know if youve you had heard of that. But someone where you never see their body or the body is not representative in the story of a binary necessarily, and/or someones gender identity is just man or woman or male or female, again, it really is going to be specific to the story and the character, but if its right for me, then itll be right. Demi Lovato I think was the most recent really big announcement. Back in 2016, fans of the critically acclaimed Netflix dramedy "Orange Is the New Black" were introduced to the character Brandy Epps, a member of the prison's white supremacy gang. We talked a little bit about Star Trek, and feel free to bring in other examples if they exist, but tell me a little bit about how they have treated this subject of gender expression. And, as a semi-religious person who went to Catholic school, I have come to believe that God made me transgender. Sun: Thats a such a universal maxim. Even if nothing in the script or the filming changes, whats the significance of a move like that? And I think these are rooms with people who are somewhat familiar with gender identity or the concept of pronouns, or certainly when I use mine could be like, What did that mean? So yes, Im just relating to the fact that, as you said, the burden is always on or predominantly on non-binary or trans people, gender nonconforming people, to say, like, Heres how Im different instead of the burden or the joy actually on all of us getting to self-determine, be autonomous and have that respected. And so just coming to an understanding that a body is a body, and also male and female as biological sexes are so much more complicated even than just male and female. And so I identify as neither a man or a woman or male or female, because those binaries arent real. White: Yes, exactly. And I remember taking the clippers that my roommate had at the time and just going for it. I dont necessarily like when the attempt is offensive, but to get something right, you also need to know what you got wrong. So I wanted to start by asking you, where are you currently at in terms of how you decide to spend your time or energy educating people? Im really grateful for that, Dillon tells Yahoo Lifestyle at New York Citys Build Studio (part of Yahoos parent company, Oath), where they had dropped by for a live studio interview. It allows me to gain perspective, to be more accepting of others, because I know what it feels like to know you're not like everyone else. Like you just said, the Gotham Awards just announced that theyre abolishing it, the MTV Movie and TV Awards, you were the very first person in 2017 to present a gender-neutral acting category, and I believe that both the Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have gender-neutral categories. Female is a sex, and sex is between our legs, and gender identity is between our ears.. I like sphere Ive been using the word spectrum, but I think sphere is even more encompassing of all the different identities that can fall within it. That also means that we can put you in dramas and comedies. This applies also to disability representation and also religious representation. Like when that happens, we dont see Taylor being cut down by that, it just reveals that the person whos doing it is horrible. Pats gender was literally the running joke. You can have non-binary people in comedy. Dillon: Exactly. The net worth of Asia Kate Dillon is estimated to be around $4 million while the figure on their annual income/salary is under review. And I think thats part of the key to LGBTQ representation, the storied history of LGBTQ representation and definitely non-binary representation. In one of their interviews, they revealed that they were currently dating a man, however, chose to not divulge any further details such as his name or the duration of their relationship. Everybody else around Pat was obsessed with Pats gender, which if you talk to trans people, non-binary people, thats kind of what the world is like now. I was fine with it and excited for it. I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of that character and what it laid the groundwork for and how it embodied a lot of harmful treatment of gender and non-binary identities in Hollywood. I know Im being really specific, but I think its okay. That doesnt make them a woman. So in that sense, I think expanding the definition of what a woman is is great for people who identify as women and want to work at expanding that definition for themselves and the world at large. And how would we talk about Pats gender and Pats partners differently versus when we did it then? 55 Non-Binary People Explain What "Non-Binary" Means To Them. It feels sensational. But if you miss breakfast, its just snack food. We want it to look hot. And in terms of Bobbie, as soon as I saw Bobbie on screen, I was just like, This is so much of what I have been asking for in the sense that this is a character that people clearly are not trying to force one way or another. The Masons Doug and Taylor are somewhat estranged, but its primarily because of the clashing ambitions between these two incredibly brilliant people, but still there were moments throughout that arc where I feel like viewers got a little sense of what Taylors coming out was like for both father and child. Taylor Mason (Asia Kate Dillon) has come a long way from first joining Axe Capital as an intern, working for Bobby Axelrod (Damian Lewis). I carry that with me when Im out in the world and Im misgendered. And so, again, once somebody else opens that door, the door gets to open for other people. What does that look like? Thank you for your courage, your generosity and ceaselessly working to make this world a more inclusive and compassionate place. Some of it feels a little weird. I think that non-binary identity is really kind of behind other LGBTQ communities on screen. But I think the degree to which people understood what their conversation was saying, and personally being informed, has changed. Its part of the set design because its true to the world. Asia Kate Dillon is a performer, writer and director residing in New York City. Ive spoken to child development experts about childrens media and gender, and that binary in kids isnt inherent. Asia finished the Meisner training program at The Actors Workshop of Ithaca and was the youngest student to enroll at the age of 16 while they were still in high school. Click here for your trial subscription: https:. 454 1. ", "Non-binary is a term used by some people, myself included, who experience their gender identity as falling somewhere outside the boxes of man or woman," the actor explained. Sun: Its a great answer. I will not play a character where its essential that you have to see that persons body, and that person was assigned male at birth, and that person has not medically transitioned in any way. We're human beings, and this is a human life. I think its the intent and the knowledge that goes into that and the level of sensitivity that actually ultimately matters. If you have a kid who comes out as non-binary, you get to watch this father actively work from a place of love to learn to love his child again, or in a new way, or something. And having seen the first two movies, I just said yes, before I even read the script. How Well Does the 'John Wick' Cast Know Keanu? Born Name Here's what to know, Adults with autism say they always felt 'different' growing up. This is a good segue into representation, frankly, but its like, there was nobody like Taylor before Taylor. This was such a pleasure. In 2017, "Billions" star Asia Kate Dillon, the. Sun: I think it was incredibly thoughtful. 572 Asia Kate Dillon Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images CREATIVE EDITORIAL VIDEO All Sports Entertainment News Archival Browse 572 asia kate dillon photos and images available, or start a new search to explore more photos and images. And sometimes youre just at the last door, which sounds terrible. They have a mild social media following with more than 150k followers on Instagram and more than 50k followers on Twitter. Sign up for THR news straight to your inbox every day. There were versions of the script that had pronouns for the Adjudicator that were he/him, there were versions that had she/her. We dont have to confine you in the same way that we always have. And more importantly, whats the significance of having characters like the guys its mostly guys the characters at Axe Capital be able to normalize gender fluidity acceptance in this way? Anyway, I have this because you never know if theres going to be food somewhere. My pronouns are they/them. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. And, mind you, that is not always how trans people describe being trans or encapsulating the trans identity. Sun: And that really does emerge in so many different topics when weve been talking about inclusion is that these are sandboxes that are in some ways to use this overworn phrase in a genuine way a safe space to be able to explore some of these stories or identities that mainstream culture wasnt ready for yet. Billions or Orange Is the New Black?They are literally so different. When my contract was negotiated, I knew that there was a possibility for nudity. White: Oh my God, this is incredible. Because I feel like its also extraordinary to have a character whos never referred to by a pronoun. They are available to me. Having a deep voice but also being pink, being feminine and masculine at the same time, having a body shape that sort of defies what women or men are supposed to look like was really, really appealing to me. Billions season five is currently back and airing on Showtime on Sundays. Sweater by Maison Kitsun / Pants by Issey Miyake / Shoes by Dr. Martens / Beanie by Noah / Sunglasses by Mykita. It is exactly the kind of conversation that I believe that they would it just rang so true for the characters, and I thought it beautifully handled a father who genuinely loves his child, genuinely wants to be there and to learn, and admitted within the scene that hes trying, you know? And I love that I am queer. And its pretty clear to me when Im engaging with people who arent coming from that place, who just arent coming from a place of love or who arent being genuine, and so because its generally fortunately for me pretty clear whos coming from where, Im able actually to put my energy into a place that feels worth it, where Im getting something out of the exchange too, versus talking to a brick wall that I know is really immovable. It was very overdue. But I noticed when I was watching your various past interviews, that youve been very gracious and very patient in answering questions about what it means to be non-binary, even when I imagine sometimes the questions might grow repetitive or kind of basic. Do you ever have days where you dont feel like having the conversation? My job was to show up on set, put on the costume, play the character, and then take off the costume, and leave the character at work. I think the interesting thing about trans versus non-binary representation is that trans representation has arguably existed more specifically and intentionally than non-binary representation.
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