I read somewhere that Olympic Arms made a bunch of 30 carbine uppers for Isreal back in the 90s. During the early 1900s, the folks atWinchester learned that their main competitor, Remington, was working on a centerfire autoloading rifle suitable for hunting big game. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. About 1916 vintage. Another $300. The .356 Win. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. Itsnodawayitustabe Registered Joined Apr 12, 2016 As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. These were theWinchester Self-Loading (WSL) rounds, including .32 WSL, .35 WSL, .351 WSL, and .401 WSL. Heavy, slow, not very accuate, and now days ammo is next to impossible to find. I too have an M1, and also two 1907's - both from the first year of production. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. from a 20-inch barrel. This listing is for ONE Magazine. Plainfield Machine Corp. made a .30 caliber pistol from 1964 to 1983 named the "Enforcer". Another article, said at first Winchester wanted to use the 32 WSL for WW2, but military brass wanted 30 caliber, so Winchester designed the 30 Carbine, still popular today. It puts down Whitetail deer and wild hogs quite nicely. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. [6] (The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols.) My pick by far is the 30 carbine for all the previous listed reasons. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. In 1944, Smith & Wesson developed a hand-ejector revolver to fire .30 Carbine. Its too bad that no other companies picked up the 32 WSL, 35 WSL, 351WSL and 401 WSL . Hornady Custom: 2018 fps. The two really dont compare. Even the military wouldnt use semi or full auto ( hand held) fearing soldiers would shoot too much ammo. 80% BLUE, NICE BORE. Cumpston, Mike, "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", "CARTRIDGE AND CHAMBER DRAWINGS CENTERFIRE RIFLE", "Rimless cartridges, Calibres of rifled long centre fire weapons for rimless cartridges", "BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch:: .357 Mag Results", "Liberator's Truimphal March Through An Ecstatic Island", "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.30_Carbine&oldid=1152171899, Winchester Repeating Arms Company cartridges, Articles with failed verification from July 2020, Pages using infobox firearm cartridge with unknown parameters, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 28 April 2023, at 17:05. The .351 SL cartridge used an unusual bullet diameter of .351 instead of the .357 or .358 more commonly used in .35-caliber rifle cartridges. The loud blast is the most oft-mentioned characteristic of the .30 Carbine cartridge when fired in a handgun.[10]. and .35 Rem., it was an excellent woods rifle for hunting whitetails. Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. The .30 Carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester Self-Loading used in an early semi-auto sporting rifle. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. The .35 Rem. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. Id submit that for most shooters and hunters, cartridges like the .40 S&W and the 10mm Auto are the first things that come to mind when they think of semi-automatic .40 caliber cartridges. It is very accurate, easy to carry and fast on the target. Every competition has a winner, but the truth is, youre unlikely to notice much difference from the whitetail stand. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Whitetail hunting strategies for the next generation. Among Federals offerings, the highest BC for a .350 Legend is .259 while the highest BC for a .30-30 is .313. For the .30-30, however, the company offers multiple 150- and 170-grain loads as well as a 125-grain jacketed hollow point and a 170-grain Nosler partition that the company bills as ideal for elk. The 30 Carbine was necked down to accept a 0.308 diameter, 110-grain full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. The 30 Carbine was necked down to accept a 0.308" diameter, 110-grain full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet. However, as a bottleneck cartridge, the .30-30 has a slight advantage at longer ranges. There are photos of hunters taking a polar bear with a 357 Mag revolver! The competition in this category is just as close as ballistics, but right now, better availability gives the edge to the .350 Legend. True .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ballistics information can vary widely from the displayed information, and it is important to understand that the particular characteristics of a given round can make a substantive difference in its true performance. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. The .30 Carbine uses a lighter bullet (110 grain versus 165 grain) and improved powder. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. It has never failed me. When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. M44/Carbine; Mini-14 Type; Model 77; RWS Rifles; S Misc Rifles; Saiga Rifles. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. I have been able to get one of each of the calibers ( models) and without too much trouble or expense. WINCHESTER 30-30 M#94. Shootability The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. The 32 WSL fired a 165 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 32-40 ballistics, the 32-40 was considered good for deer. Area Code: 715. Good information on these rifles. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. Both of them had Long Tom 94's in 30-30 Winchesters. This is the Winchester 61 chambered in .22LR Long Rifle with a blued metal with a length of 23 1/2in. 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Show Only with Pictures And with Winchester, Ruger, Mossberg and other companies making bolt action rifle in 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster, maybe they could make a run of rifles in 351 WSL and 401 WSL too., with 5 and 10 round magazines. The .350 Legend is popular enough to justify continued production but not popular enough that the shelves are bare. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. In fact, as Speckin explains, the whole series of Winchester Self-Loaders were designed as smokeless semiautomatic analogs for the saddle carbine role. I have a 35 wsl and am going to pick up a 351 wsl next week. 351 winchester for sale and auction. The AR 15 would be good for the 401 WSL. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. I have a .356 Win. This was about as powerful as the original .30-30 Winchester load of a 160 grain bullet at 1,970 feet per second (1,379 ft-lbs of energy) and quite a bit more powerful than a .357 Magnum load. The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. McPherson. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. [5] Most ammunition available today for the .351 SL is produced by a few boutique manufacturers, often using either cast lead bullets or copper-plated bullets or, occasionally, .358 jacketed bullets resized to .351 or .352 caliber. The .30-30 in this example is traveling about 5% faster at the muzzle, but it drops about 20% less than the .350. One would think the 32WSL, 35 WSL, 351 WSL and 401 WSL would still be in use today. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. H Winchester Round Barrel Rifle, made in 1882. The 35 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 38-40 ballistics. . It would have been very similar to todays. hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchester's now . Most commercially available loads for the .351 SL launched a 180 grain .351 caliber bullet at between 1,850 and 1,925 fps from a 20-inch barrel, yielding identical muzzle energy to the .30-30 when fired from a 20-inch barrel (rather than a manufacturer's long test barrel). In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . Buy a 351 winchester online. It was a 94 takedown that was returned to Winchester (per the family to be re-barreled) it was barreled with the front end of a Winchester takedown 55, comple 7677 Winchester Model 94AE, 30-30, NRA limited to 500, engraved Deer on receiver Adjustable rear sight, Winchester butt plate. "[8], U.S. Army specifications for the new cartridge mandated the caliber to be greater than .27, with an effective range of 300 yards or more, and a midrange trajectory ordinate of 18 inches (460mm) or less at 300 yards. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. 350 Legend has more energy than the 351 WSL and less recoil than the 450 Bushmaster. Mag. They include both the AccuBond and the Partition 225-grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. The trouble is, they didnt sell. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page. If you broaden your search to the World Wide Web, most online carriers offer twice as many .30-30 options. NICE BRIGHT BORE. The .351 WSL cartridge is a up-powered stand-in for the .44-40 or .45 Colt, throwing a 180 grain bullet (softpoint or FMJ) at 1900 fps. A standard .30 Carbine ball bullet weighs 110 grains (7.1g); a complete loaded round weighs 195 grains (12.6g) and has a muzzle velocity of 1,990ft/s (610m/s), giving it 967ftlbf (1,311 joules) of energy when fired from the M1 carbine's 18-inch barrel. The .35 Rem. 80% BLUE. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. It feels like you get an initial kick when the gun goes off, which is then followed immediately by even harder hit when the heavy movable actions parts slam to the rear of the rifle. "[8] The evaluation also reported that "[c]ommanders noted that it took two to three engagements at least to settle their men to the automatic feature of the carbine so that they would not greatly waste ammunition under the first impulse of engagement. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. We offer a 100% Authenticity Guarantee on all products sold on our website. In most Caliber Battles, one cartridge clearly offers more power and velocity across a range of loads and bullet weights. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. Even so, the Model 1903 rifle was fairly popular and sold approximately 120,000 examples over a production life of 33 years. Make sure you subscribe toThe Big Game Hunting Podcastand follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. [1], The 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on the .351 SL. M870 Remington 12 ga. pump with 'bucking shot' or #2s would suffice best! This was about as powerful as the original .30-30 Winchester load of a 160 grain bullet at 1,970 feet per second (1,379 ft-lbs of energy) and quite a bit more powerful than a .357 Magnum load. Having said that, it must be noted that the rifle and caliber combination is certainly not perfect. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. The same probably goes for the AR-15 when they think of a semi auto police patrol rifle. All Types (1000+) The 10mm Auto semi auto pistols is being used to hunt deer and wild hogs, and it equals the 35 WSL ballistics. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. .30-.30 caliber In excellent used condition. Commonly known asthe Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. The .35 Rem. If you get a GI M1 carbine (only ones worth considering) then youll have a REAL military weapon. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Unfortunately, finding .401 or .351 Winchester ammo is also pretty difficult as well, though its still possible to find the odd box of factory ammunition and the necessary reloading supplies from places like Buffalo Arms. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. The .351 is a great urban defense cartridge, but ammo supplies are extremely limited, and so is magazine capacity. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). But the military has hundreds of millions of 30-06 ammo from WW1, and didnt want a new caliber. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. Since .22 caliber cartridges of that time period were not loaded to uniform ballistics, Winchester specifically developed the .22 Automatic Winchester Rimfire cartridge for reliable functioning in the Model 1903 rifle. THE USUAL CRACKS IN THE FORE END. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . He became convinced that faster, flatter-shooting cartridges would take game more reliably, and the resulting line of Weatherby Magnum cartridges has been doing just that since he founded Weatherby in 1945. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. You will never get the recoil spring back in it. That seems to happen a bunch to the rifles that had an active life! The Legend has more trouble fighting wind and gravity. from a 20" barrel. Mag. They would probably still be around today. PISTOL GRIP, SPLINTER FORE END, PISTOL GRIP, SPLINTER FORE END, DOUBLE TRIGGERS, EXTRACTOR. Mag. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. Even though Winchester developed a round suitable for straight blowback actions, the rifle they eventually submitted designed by William Roemer and Fred Humeston, and based on the work done by convict David Marshall Williams was a gas-operated, locked breech design. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. In some ways, the United States military decided this Caliber Battle in 1957. EARLY GUN SERIAL NUMBER 194. Mag. Plainfield Machine produced M1 carbines from 1960 to 1977, when they were bought out by Iver Johnson Corp, who has manufactured them at least until a 50th anniversary model in 1993.
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